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 Teams for 2012/13 Season

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Nicky

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PostSubject: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:06 am

Hi all

I have spoken to most people about teams for next year and want to look forawrd to the season and future of the club so there have been a few changes in most teams.

There is still some uncertainty with regard to the final A-team and subsequent B-team setup. The A-team had a difficult year last year and the same team would easily go stratight back up and have teh same potential problems, therefore the teams have been selected based on commitment and ability to train together as this has been a major issue in the progress over the last couple of seasons.

The main body of the team is to me made up of:

Beth Barratt
Chaz Cheung
Nicky Cressser
Phil Dean
Matthew Fletcher

With there potential for 2 from the following to take take the places Scott Cresswell, Ian Davison, Duncan McAuley, Ross Martin. We are keen to have someone willing to play in goal along with the general playing strengths to support the team going forward. There also needs to be a commitment to train regularly etc etc. A final decision will be made in due course.

As such the B-team is comprised as follows:

Hoody
Mark Ledger
Paul Ramsey
James Tonks

these players will be joined by the remaining 2 or 3 players listed above.

The C-team is as follows

Calum Cresser
Paul Gwyther
Russell Rowell
Katie Sweeting
Ben Teasdale
Connor Turner

There are a bumber of players who haven't committed fully to this team namely Lee Royle and Francis Jpnes, but who have expressed an interest. The Youngsters have come on a lot in the last year and it will be good for them to gain experience in division 3 and it would be very useuful if more senior players could attend these tournaments to help out coaching and refereeing.

Please let me know if you need any concerns as these teams are by no means set in stone.

Cheers

Nicky
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Tonksie

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:22 pm

Couple of things (apparently 7!);

1. Spoke to Ross and he's expressed a desire to try to maintain the core of last years Div 3 winning B team. So I'd like to claim him to keep 4 out of last years 6 together as we seemed to be geling as a unit.

2. Thought Ramsey didn't want to play any polo with last years b team players? has this changed? elephant

3. We could use a keeper but i guess the one decent one in the club (Scott) will be a prized asset for either team.

4. ID and DM will be assets to whatever team they are in so no preference.

5. Training wise I cant commit to attending any mid week sessions over the summer and winter pool sessions will be uni dependent. (unless my work location changes! Suspect ) I guess Ross and Hoody will be the same re commitment to training due to distance.

6. Div 2 is only 8 mins each way next year so teams of 7 could see significant subbing issues. In general 19 (+ maybe 2) paddlers for 3 teams seems a bit on the high but probably not quite enough for another team.

7. Captains?



In general i just like smashing people to bits so i'm happy as long as i'm getting to play!
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Nicky

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am

thanks for the comments so far, I have spoken to everyone mentioned (ramsey and ross, along with tonksie and Dunc)and discussing further options.

keep comments coming, we appear to be getting somewhere...

Nicky
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Tonksie

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:34 pm

The B team posted on the other thread won't work. We all know Ramsey and Chaz cant play on the same team and it not fair on either to ask them to.

Who are the 8 who got to vote on this a team? when did the b team get a vote to decide who was on the b team?

This is turning in to a complete joke. Out of 12 plyers can we not get to two teams of 6 which can play and train together? Chaz has already said she wont play in that B team so we need to find another 6th player for the b team.
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Ramz

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:16 pm

I donít actually mind playing in the same team as Chaz, I donít have a problem with her.

I agree totally with Tonksie about how the teams were selected. The voting should involve all A,B and C teams members.

I also agree with Chazís decision. Why should she play in the B team. She knows that sheís good enough to be in the A Team and to compete at the highest level and so do I, sheís a lot better than most people give her credit for.

Ramz
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Tonksie

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:35 am

Ramz, I must have misunderstood our conversation in Wales, my bad!

Chaz has also calmed down a bit (i think) but I don't blame her from being very unhappy with the situation.

Team selection seems to have gone from Nicky's decision basing the new teams on training and commitment, into a popularity contest.

I'd heard that the teams were pertty much finalised after National Champs. Was this not the case?

In conclusion I'm very dissolusioned with the entire selection process, the wasted summer competitions in general and the growing trend within the club to say one thing, mean another and then do something different.

One reason I quit high level slalom was because the bitching and politics took all the enjoyment away from the sport. Unfortunatly Tees Tigers seems to be going the same way. (Maybe its me, maybe not). I want to spend my spare time playing sport with people who share similar goals and have similar values, and I'm not sure i'm in the right place anymore.
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Nicky

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:12 am

All along I have been open and honest about everything.

I selected teams based on commitment to the team, along with training ethic. Throughout the process I have been consistently and persistently undermined, criticised and complained at and about. It's time someone else got a slagging! At no point have I been anything other than open and gone along with what I believe to be the right way forward. My belief is clearly wrong, due to the volume of complaint and criticism I have received...

The teams were decided and discussed at our last committee meeting, and were not announced as i hadn't spoken to the players who were moving down teams. Then subsequently there were more complains to which my reply was, if there is a better way of doing things, then change it, but make sure that everyone is informed and happy.

I think that the only way of sorting this out is to either go with the teams that have been put to the committee, those posted on the forum, or start again, have a meeting between all interested parties and get it sorted there and then.

To aid discussions, the teams put to the committee are as follows:

A-team
Beth
Chaz
Scott
Phil
Matt
Duncan

B team
Hoody
Tonksie's
Ledger
Ian
Ramz
Ross

C team
As per earlier post.

Thoughts
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Nicky

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:24 am

The above post has just been edited
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Duncan
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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:35 am

My experience of how teams are selected (both in polo and other sports) is that the coach makes a decision as to what is best for the club and everyone sticks to it. We make our cases based on commitment to training and effort at competitions.

I guess the main question is: why can't we all get along?

I know none of the people involved in deciding teams found it a pleasant process (and that is to understate it slightly) but they have done it because someone had to. That is at the end of the day what the committee does, the things they don't really want to do but have to be done!

I don't think we should stop feedback to the committee but can we play nicely? They are our friends and doing their best to make sure we can all enjoy canoeing together for years to come. Even if they get it wrong sometimes (as they undoubtedly will) surely they deserve more than our criticism?


Spoken like a true ex committee member eh....
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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:34 am

I ran the vote to select the team I posted in my post yesterday.

I ran this over this weekend being told if there was so much disagreement with the teams then sort it and as it was also a GB weekend I did not have time to have a chat with people about the results as I was told it must be sorted by Sunday.

I think the source of the controversy on the is there feeling due to Nicky not getting on with Ross many feel he has been ignored when he is a very strong player and very fit. Now I am not arguing if this is true or not. Most likely it stems from the fact that Ross just hasn't been recognized for his living far away and being unable to attend tigers sessions with any frequency but the fact he plays for the U21 Men and is going to the worlds should be testament to the level of polo he plays.

Any way I was told to sort it I did as best I could in one day but if you want to ignore it by all means do!
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Tonksie

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:57 am

The initial post on this thread seemed fairly clear.

5 in the A team (4 now Nicky has stepped away)

4 in the B team

and 4 others to be split between the two teams.

From the discussions we had it was clear that the A team would be made up of those who wanted and had the opportunity to committ to training and developing their polo to their best ability. The B team would be those who couldnt allways make that committment.

My initial thoughts were quite positive (generally) and were posted above. At this point I was still happy (well as happy as i ever am!).

The we get to the week before Hull and were still no closer to a decision on the 4 undecided players so I was a bit critical of Hull team selections and the lack of progress. My critisims were dealt with and the outcome from Hull seemed to arrive us closer to final team selections, positive step.

National champs and the teams were swapped around again to try more combinations and see how DMc fitted in to the A team. Positive steps.

Committee meeting on last monday, teams decided but not announced, pretty much as expected the day the initial post went up, no problem.

Then somewhere between there and Sunday morning we have some sort of secret popularity contest to change the teams again. This is where I start to get really miffed.

Either Nicky picks the teams (as I was told when I had my paddy before Hull) or he doesn't and we have an open selection vote with all potential team members involved, or something else entirely.





If I understood Nicky's initial selections he went for two teams which would cope in div 2 but the A team had the better chance of success and development into contention for div 1 with committment to training. The 2 teams would be suited to differing styles of play (a team generally quicker intelegent play, b team generally more stacked with chunky monkeys!).

This wouldn't nessisarily put the clubs 6 best (most skillfull/flair/shooting/hardworking) players together all in one team but a blending the players to suit the underlying play styles of the teams.




I guess my biggest issue is this last minute voting to change teams, with only a select few invited to have an input. Not good skills.
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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:14 am

Well just ignore it then your comments aren't really moving things forward!

And a good team needs a mix of fast people and bigger strong people

I thought the game plan was to go to DIV1 again and asked the 8 people in the running to pick their strongest team with Nicky being the tie breaker.

But apparently thats not the goal at all for some reason
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Tonksie

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:01 am

If you wanted to go straight back up all you had to do was leave the teams as they were. Or play at playoffs.

I thought the plan was to build and develop a new a team who trained together regularly (weekly) with the focus on playing well this season not neccissarily going straight back up. Thats what the emails I got talked about anyway. If you want a copy i'm sure Nicky wouldn't mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:14 pm

Right let's look at this logically if 6 people come forward and have the means and determination to make div1 this season then that's the a team. If there aren't six the we go 100% by club policy head coach picks two teams
So let it be known where you stand ASAP so this can be done and dusted!

I want to go up to div1 so I am 1/6
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Tonksie

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:45 pm

I am not looking to get promoted this season so put me in the B team please.
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Phil Dean



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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:36 pm

Div 2 for me please, or 3 I am past the point of caring anymore. It is not my aim to get to Div 1 (next season at least)
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Ramz

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:55 pm

Quote :
Tonksie:
Ramz, I must have misunderstood our conversation in Wales, my bad!
I had a change of heart.

I am not looking to get promoted this season either. B or C will do for me
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bethbarratt



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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:02 am

Hi,

I'm trying to stay out of this as I'm new to the club and don't wanna piss any one off. Quick question though-why aren't we trying to get back to div 1?? I don't understand. Surely the 'a' teams aim it to get back up so that we learn from decent opposition??

I thought that was why we were picking the best players that train.. Picking players for the long run to build for the future. No point hanging in div 2 if we don't have to??

Sorry to butt in, just my thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:52 am

I have been looking through this thread with some concern at how it looks as though some people are potentially on the route to falling out with eachother!!! this is not good!! I wasnt going to get involved but thought i would make my thought known, sorry if anyone doesnt agree with me

I know that i probably dont have a right to chip in to this thread as i wont be involved in any teams next season but i am slightly saddened by the way people are getting at eachother, ( come on guys we are all friends and all enjoy this sport) it is only a game afterall! Basketball I know how hard it can be selecting teams as each person wants different things from the sport, some want to get to the top level and some wish to pold about for the fun times and banter, when i set the club up back in 2001 with Paul B we did so because of similar issues within tees rockets!!! once tigers was formed we had no issues like this with team selections which is a sign of where the club (you guys) have got to, this is great for the club but obviously seems to be becoming detrimental to the team spirit. my hopes for this club was to have a close knit group of players who are strong together on the water and who work hard for eachother and become good freinds off the water too. i hope that this is not falling apart!!

From a neutral point of view i would have to agree that the A team should be selected from those players who have the desire and determination to get to the top of the game, obviously this is going to require committment to training regular on a weekly basis, i am sure that we have 6 players who fit this description, well i can name 6 anyway. also i agree with Beth, the A team should be aiming to be in div 1 by the end of this season we do have the means within the club to achieve this as i dont see any team in div 2 at the min that would come close to our best 6 players, so come on guys lets pull together and get back to div 1 Very Happy Very Happy

If you are after a neutral view on who i think the A team should be in order to achieve div 1 then please ask as i dont want to offend anyone by putting it up here Razz Razz

Personally i think that a team selection day should be held at the beginning of the summer, end of the winter season where everyone wanting to play the next season is obliged to attend, everyone should sit down together and have a discussion / debrief whatever you want to call it with regards the previous season to get out in the open positive and negative points so that everyone can continue to pull in the same direction (this should not be taken as a free for all bitching session but as a way of voicing any weaknesses the club needs to work on during the summer training / comps) I think that if everyone is allowed a 1 min slot to say anything that they feel needs to be voiced and then a discussion takes place afterwards, the selection process needs to be as open as possible each season, the team should be selected on this same day by the head coach and i think each team captain should also be involved in this selection process. and also decide which tournaments will be entered as teams so that the summer is not a wasted venture as to some extent it has been this year
i think that this discussion at the minute would only work if it is chaired by someone who has not played and is strong enough to butt in if things move off track ( mark cresswell, good for this i recon)

Maybe something to think of is as the club tries to build a strong team is that each team is selected for a 2 or 3 year period???? with minor changes if needed on a yearly basis, this could help develop a strong platform for people coming in to the teams........just a thought!! this way selection days could be held every 2 - 3 years so i theory no excuse not to attend!!

Well i hope i have not said anything out of turn, i just thought i would try and help the situation!!

what ever teams are chosen then good luck to all our teams for the coming season and beyond, hopefully someone will keep me up to date on how the season goes, afterall once a tiger always a tiger hey Grrrr ha ha ha ha
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Nicky

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:28 am

done

spoke to everyone at training last night and it has been finalised as the list put to the committee.

For these teams to develop, they need to be working together with the same goal, and this has been the main focus of the selection process. Talking of getting back to div 1 shopuld be an abition, but a strong performance this year is necessary to bed the new team in. Before the league starts it would be good to have a mini tourmament for our teams to play against each other over the course of a weekend and there is potential to invite other teams, anyone want to make arrangements for this?

The key things in this sport are to play together, I am happy to discuss with everyone what I see their individual floors are along with reasons for any decisions made. If people are not happy with one person sorting things, people need to have a suggest something better, however committee arrangements are often complicated and don't work, but that's my opinion, feel free to rubbish it...

Also, I will not be putting myself forward for the 2013 AGM to be the club's coach so tell all of your friends as this place needs to be filled by someone commited to club life who has a great deal of involvement in club affairs.

See you all at training.

Nicky
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Phil Dean



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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:26 am

my next free weekend is the 22/23rd of September... This is the weekend before the first div 2 tournament though. I am really quite busy until the end of September but will help out as and when I can.
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Tonksie

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:29 pm

I'm booked up apart from the following;

This coming weekend(28&29), Next weekend (4&5) or the 15th September(sat).
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chaz

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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:59 pm

i'm free the following:

this weekend (28/29th July)
25/26th August - potentially training with Alison from Scotland - so people more than welcome to come down if we're not having comp
15/16th sept

then from 29/30th weekend onwards excluding the 28th october

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Phil Dean



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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:07 am

I have set up a doodle poll to make things easier.
http://doodle.com/tgf3kaw28anstfcb
just select the dates you can do.
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PostSubject: Re: Teams for 2012/13 Season   Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:08 pm

if everyone went training as much as they talked on here then we would have two teams in div1. why dont you try slalom and everyone will know who is the best!!!!!!!
ps do you want to race the kids and learn some real skill
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